Shorr Solutions: The Podcast – Ep. 151 – How to Hire the Right Person

00;00;04;10 – 00;00;30;26
Voiceover
You’re listening to Shorr Solutions: The Podcast where our expert consulting team steps behind the mic to share some of the strategies and solutions we implement for esthetic practices nationwide. With decades of combined experience running and coaching esthetic and medical practices. We bring you the guidance that strengthens operation, elevates profitability, and supports long term growth. This is where solutions begin.

00;00;30;28 – 00;00;57;28
Ana Suarez
Welcome to another episode of Shorr Solutions: The Podcast. I am your host, Anna Suarez, and I am the director of Client Success and partner at Shorr Solutions today I have the pleasure of having with me Nanette Maddox. She is our senior Client Success Manager and she works with many of our clients with their operations, financials and also hiring. Nan, welcome to this episode. How are you?

00;00;58;00 – 00;01;00;23
Nanette Maddox
I’m doing great Ana. Thank you. How are you?

00;01;00;26 – 00;01;43;09
Ana Suarez
Doing good! I’m excited to have you here with me today. Because we have a topic, it’s more like a hot topic, which is hiring. And in our previous episode, we covered, what to do before hiring. Such as, like, setting up expectations, defining the jobs you know, the descriptions. And so today. We want to talk about what to do once the hiring process starts. So with that said, Nan I know that you have worked with many of our clients, helping them with their hiring and also in your past experiences as well. And I wanted to ask you what I like, the top things that we should be looking for when hiring, the new employees.

00;01;43;12 – 00;07;07;04
Nanette Maddox
Well, the first thing I want to say is there aren’t any magic tricks. We’re not going to be pulling any anything out of our sleeve that you probably haven’t already heard. So a lot of this is just going to be a refresher. And things that we have experienced Ana and I have interviewed many people and the other thing that you need to know, besides there aren’t any magic tricks, is you’re not always going to get it right. We want to try to pick out the right things. Whenever we’re looking for someone to hire. And the first thing we need to look for is pattern behavior, not just experience. Experience tells you where they’ve been, but patterns really tell you who they are. So you want to look for someone that has had a promotion or expanded on responsibility, not just someone that has gone from job to job, job hopping with one explanation after another, and you want some growth within the roles. So not just moving around to different roles. You want to see someone that has growth potential because the past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. You can teach somebody how to do the job, but it’s very hard to change the pattern of someone, so that would be the first thing. But the second one would be coach ability over confidence. I have interviewed many that would tell me they could essentially walk on water. Those that are overconfident. I found they’re not the most coachable. They come in thinking they already know everything and they just don’t want to listen. So what you want to do is look for someone that has curiosity about the job, and they’re willing to say, I don’t know. When you ask a question in an interview, if they’re constantly trying to give you an answer and you know that they’re blowing smoke, you want someone that’s going to say, I don’t know, you want some examples of what they didn’t like and how they handled it. What you don’t want red flags would be blaming former employers. And we hear that a lot. We hear more often than not the reason they’d left a position was because there was a change in management. So I kind of have a hard time with that sometimes. While true new management coming in can cause upheaval in an organization, but you want someone that’s able to adapt to change because there’s always change going on and practices. You don’t want someone that says already you know how to do that. Or again, they’re over polished with their answers. So you can teach skills, but you can’t teach someone how to be humble. And the third thing, emotional intelligence, especially in patient facing roles. So this is for practice is win or lose money. You want someone that can read the room if they’re talking, and you can see a glazed over patient, they need to be able to read the room, understand what they’re who they’re talking to, and be able to calm that patient under stress. We work with clients all the time that say, you know, my patients are anxious. How do I teach our staff to be better? Calming the patient and talking with the patient. And a lot of it comes down to having empathy. So you want to someone that has empathy. A good interview question for that is tell me about a time you dealt with a difficult patient or a client. And what was hard about that for you? So looking for emotional intelligence, ownership mentality. This is where we hear a lot of people that don’t own up to things that go on with their jobs. You want someone that owns outcomes, not just task they use, they use “I” instead of “They” they’re taking ownership. They have specific examples of where they took initiative. They fix problems without being asked. We had a member on our team recently that I said, wow, look at you fixing something that needed to be fixed without having to be told. And those are things that you want to look for in an employee. What you don’t want is someone that says, that’s really wasn’t my job, or they didn’t train me, or no one told me. We have a recent client that told us that his office manager quits at 5:00 and won’t even take a phone call or answer a text from him after five. So that is someone that you probably don’t want managing your practice because they don’t take ownership of their responsibilities and their position. The last thing, and probably one of the most important, is culture. You want someone that’s going to have shared values. They can have a different style or way of doing things, but they still have the shared values that you do in your office. You want to ask questions about core values. What are their core values? You want to know that their culture and how they’re going to best fit into your organization. They can have respectful disagreements. That’s okay. No one ever has to agree with you. 100% of the time, and you want something that complements their strengths. So culture isn’t necessarily about their personality, it’s more about their behavior and how they behave with other people.

00;07;07;07 – 00;07;08;02
Ana Suarez
Wow!

00;07;08;02 – 00;07;11;02
Nanette Maddox
So those are my top five tricks of the trade.

00;07;11;07 – 00;08;46;02
Ana Suarez
Yeah, those are great. I mean, you covered a lot of great information there. And like you said, we we have learned these after doing thousands of interviews pretty much. Right. Because this is something that all of our clients, they deal with and they always have questions about, how do I know if I’m hiring the best candidate? How do I know they’re telling me the truth? And I really loved, Nan, what you mentioned about, you know, taking ownership because many times are we doing these interviews and we look at their resumes and they have so many things listed in there. But then, you know, when you tell them, okay, so give me an example of a project that you completed or how do you lead the team, but they don’t know exactly the process. And that’s kind of a give a way of like, okay, if you were actually doing that project or task, you probably know exactly what you did and the steps that you took. And they kind of tell you that then is kind of like telling us, okay, maybe they they had someone who was directing them or someone who was like doing it with them as well. So it lets you see, have they really done this before or are they just making things up? Because we do we do see a lot of that as well, right where they say, oh, I’ve done this. And I also did that other thing. And then it wasn’t, it wasn’t really true. And with that said, Nan, you know, we get a lot of resumes for a lot of these positions, like patient care coordinators, medical assistants. What would you say are the differences between skills and feet and what are some things to look for in the résumé as well?

00;08;46;04 – 00;11;48;10
Nanette Maddox
Well, the first thing I would say, and probably not a good thing to say, but it’s people lie. So you can’t always believe what you see, just like you mentioned with project management or things that they put on there that they did. Not necessarily the case. A lot of times that’s what’s missing from the resume. That’s more important than what’s on there. But the green flags to look for in a resume is going to be, like I mentioned earlier, clear progression where they have increased in responsibility and scope in their job. You want to look for specific outcomes, especially when you’re hiring a PCC. Did they increase conversions? Did they reduce no shows? What did they do on their previous job that can be carried over to the job that you’re hiring for? You want someone that has longevity in a job because we see a lot of hopping around. I actually did an interview yesterday where I was interviewing an RN, and when I ask her what she was looking for in the new role, she kept saying, I just want to learn new things. I want to learn new things. And she didn’t know even what clinic she was interviewing for and couldn’t tell me anything from the website. So to me, I immediately I picked up on she’s just looking for another stepping stone because there had been five previously in two years. So even though her resume had some good skills on it, I believe she was a very skilled RN. She did not have the cultural fit or the attitude that we wanted, but you want to look for those green flags on a written resume. The yellow flags are going to be the gaps with vague explanations, too many roles, and a short time frame. I see many resumes that list duty after duty after duty, but they don’t say how they did it, what the results were, and then red flags or no metrics, no outcomes, nothing that they accomplished or every job ended because of management. Some of the resumes don’t match how they speak in the actual interview. So a resume is going to get you the interview, but the actual interview confirms the resume, or better yet, it exposes it. A recent interview I did was for a medical assistant in a medical spa, and on his resume was all clinical work. But during the course of the interview, he mentioned that he had done worked with wellness and a wellness clinic. And I said, where did you do that? And he told me the name and it wasn’t on his resume. So I took it upon myself. After the interview to call that clinic and ask to speak to the owner and found out that this individual had been fired for theft. So that’s what was left off of the resume. But he slipped up in the interview in his haste to want to convince me that he was a good candidate for the job.

00;11;48;13 – 00;12;30;18
Ana Suarez
And that was a perfect example because he he, like you said, he completely left it out. Then he brought it up in, you know, you had that wisdom of calling in the previous place. And then what a discovery that he had been fired. And I love that you did that because so many people, when they’re going through the hiring and interviewing process, they don’t take the time to follow up with the references. So that’s a great thing to keep in mind. Something else that you mentioned, Nan, going back to the resumes, you know, they look so nice and or maybe not. They don’t even show. What are they? You know, what have they accomplished? You know, what are some of the.

00;12;30;18 – 00;12;32;24
Nanette Maddox
The spelling is horrendous.

00;12;32;26 – 00;14;22;01
Ana Suarez
Yeah. And guess what. Now with I we have to keep that in mind that first of all, nowadays if you don’t have a really good résumé, I’m sorry, but you’re being a little bit lazy because we’ve. I can help you to put something together to look very professional. But then, on the other hand, it’s also why you mentioned nen that you said, well, it looks like a wonderful candidate until we are having the conversation with the candidate and they cannot even explain to you what it is that they did. So those are things that you have to take a look at and just consider, as you’re trying to find, you know, who’s the best fit for your for your position. But again, these are things that I think can’t even help you with because if it just takes time and experience to be able to pick up on these things, the more you do it, probably like anything else, the better you get at it. And so I think, you know, Nan has done it a thousand times. Our team Jay, myself, we have that experience and we can definitely help our clients or whoever reaches out. And then they need help with that specific process because it’s very time consuming. And there’s so many things, so many elements that goes into the process. And it could be overwhelming. And many of the practice managers, the practice owners, they just don’t have the time for it. So let’s let’s continue the and the conversation. So I wanted to know for interview topics that matter, most people leave them out. So because you know, there’s there’s some things that are basic, right. Like the gaps in the employment. How well did they put together the rest to make this as a first impression? But what are some some other things that are very important that, most people don’t even think about, that we could provide this information to our audience so they can put it in practice right away.

00;14;22;03 – 00;17;27;00
Nanette Maddox
Yes. One of them is the values alignment. I kind of touched on that a little bit earlier, but I think I heard on a different ways to phrase your questions to your children. And instead of asking your child, how’s school today, you’re going to get It was okay. It was good. You should ask them, tell me the best part of your day and that engages them in conversation. We ask a similar question and a lot of interviews. Tell me what a regular work day looks like to you. And instead of asking that, ask them what does a great work day look like to you? And that’s going to tell you what they value in a job and what they look for in a job. And you want to make sure that their values align with what you’re looking for. The next one is accountability. A question would be, tell me about a mistake you made at work and what happened next, or how did you handle that mistake. And we do ask that question quite a bit. And we get people that tell us honestly that they made a mistake and how they handled it. And I had much rather hear that and know that they’re being honest them for them to basically tell me they’ve never made a mistake because we know that’s not exactly true. The other one is a stress response. And this is something that’s hard to find out from a person in an interview. And a lot of times you don’t find this out until they’re actually on the job and they’re put under stress. We try to ask the questions of, how would you feel as a director, first impressions, working at the front desk and you have a patient standing in front of you. The phone is ringing. You have another person on hold, and the medical technician is standing behind you needing something from you or wanting to tell you something to put in a patient’s note. Those are very frustrating situations at work. I’ve had people tell me, yes, I have no problem with that. I can multitask, I can handle it. And once they start on the job, they’re in my office in a blubbering mess because they just could not handle the stress. So you want to ask them what situations frustrate frustrate you most at work? And if it’s multiple things happening at one time, you know they’re not a good candidate for a front desk. So you want to make sure you try to assess their stress response as best as possible, although you’re not always going to know how they’re going to respond. And then a growth mindset, someone that’s going to improve on themselves. What skill are they actively trying to improve right now within themselves or look at someone that’s helped a practice grow, or what are they going to bring to your practice that’s going to help it grow? Are they going to add a social media element to your practice that you don’t already have? Are they looking to improve on a different process that they’ve done in a previous practice that you could use in yours? So you want to look for values, accountability, a stress response and growth mindset. And those are some of the basic questions that you can ask during the interviews.

00;17;27;02 – 00;18;58;24
Ana Suarez
Yeah, those are those are great. And I feel that, you know, in this entire process, it’s almost like you have to wear different hats. And one of those is almost like a psychologist, you know, where you are analyzing people. And not only you’re analyzing their personality, but also, as you mentioned before, what it is that they have done in the past.

00;17;47;16 – 00;17;58;11
Ana Suarez
What are the trends, how they communicate? Do they seem to be responsible? There’s so many things that go into the hiring process. And, you know, it’s not easy at all.

00;17;58;13 – 00;18;27;18
Nanette Maddox
And again, we’re not always going to get it right. We we go through this all the time. We hired a medical assistant not too long ago that looked great on paper. The interview was great, the references checked out great, and there was an incident at work that she just didn’t want to provide a medical documentation or a note from the doctor for missing work for several days, and really had a bad attitude about that.

00;18;27;20 – 00;18;58;24
Nanette Maddox
And that’s not something that you could ever predict. But the clinic ended up having to let her go because of the outburst that she had in the clinic. So even though everything looks right, everything seems right to the right. Hire isn’t always going to be the most impressive candidate that you interview, but it’s one that’s going to have the values and the behavior and the mindset that match the role and the reality of your practice, and what you need them to do in your practice.

Ana Suarez
Correct. And you know, some people, they’re great, you know, doing interviews kind of like some people are amazing at taking tests. But then when it comes the time to really show, hey, I can do this, I can handle it, that may not be the case. So it is it is hard. It is a difficult process. And again, that’s what we do day in and day out. And we have experience. We can definitely help, you know, the teams our clients and that’s what we do. And the other thing I wanted to say as well, I know that we sometimes we recommend our clients to have their selected or maybe like top two candidates to come to the practice and just do you know, it’s like a trial because that’s something that many times our clients have done and they’re like, you know what? I’m so glad that I did this because she seemed perfect. But then once she was there answering the phone calls and, you know, having to, like, talk to the patients, it wasn’t exactly what what we were expecting.

00;19;55;21 – 00;20;44;17
Nanette Maddox
It’s absolutely a great idea to do a working interview, but you get to see them how they interact with other people in the practice, how they interact with patients, how they answer a phone. They’re not going to come in with all the skills that you need, but you’ll at least be able to see how they come dressed. And if they’re prepared, if they have come prepared with questions, do they have the right questions? So yes, absolutely. It provides some clarity. And it gives you a little more confidence. Whenever you’re hiring somebody, you want to see that they’re in alignment. But again, they can put on a show for a few hours and then come back and be someone totally different. You have interviewed Jekyll and you get Hyde.

00;20;44;19 – 00;21;49;22
Ana Suarez
Yeah. And that’s another another point to that interview. They should be they go both ways, right? Yes. We’re trying to find that as they are. The practice administrator or the practice owner. You’re trying to find out is this the right person or is this the best possible candidate. But you also have to see that engagement from the candidate because it will tell you, is this person really thinking about their future? Are they thinking, you know, long term or this is just like one stepping stone that they’re just trying to get in, get the experience and leave. So interview should be going both ways. And that was a great point, because if you don’t see the candidate asking any questions or they never took some time to go to your website and just find out a little bit more about the place where supposedly they want to be at, then it makes you think you know how. How much do they really want these? And are they thinking long term? Or are they just trying to find a job and you know that’s going to be it. And so it takes time to do the hiring to get them trained. So you want to make sure that you’re finding someone that is in for the long term. And, you know, they really want to be successful.

00;21;49;29 – 00;23;44;11
Nanette Maddox
A lot of what we run into is with people that want to eventually be a nurse injector, so they may start out as a circulating nurse, they may start out as a pre-op nurse, they may start out as something else within your practice. But you you can see and hear when you ask about where do they see themselves in five years? What are their future goals? And they tell you they’re very interested in the statics and would like to do injections. You know that they’re trying to get their foot in the door to eventually get to be and a nurse injector. So ask those questions again so that you know what they’re actually looking for. And that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t hire them. You should just understand what their goal is. And if it aligns with something that you can help accommodate. It can be a great marriage where you’re you’re teaching and growing that person and training them to ultimately be that nurse injector. But if it’s not something that you want in your practice, then that may be someone that’s not going to have an alignment with moving your practice forward.

00;23;44;14 – 00;25;58;03
Nanette Maddox
So you just want to, you know, hiring well as leadership. It’s not luck. Although some luck is involved. You want to take it slow. Don’t be in a hurry to make that offer. Although sometimes we tend to feel a little rush because we know it’s a great candidate and we want to hire them when we know they’re looking for other jobs and we want to snag them before someone else does. But you want to be able to take your time with it and listen for behavior, not the promises that they give. So you’re you’re listening. If their answers you’re paying attention, what they’re saying, and you’re listening for patterns because that’s what’s going to tell you what you’re getting in the long run. And the old adage of hire slow, fire, fast really goes into play here. You want to take your time and not be rushed.

Ana Suarez
Yes, that’s true. And also remembering to call the references yesterday, the time to call those references I know is also time consuming because sometimes they cannot answer the phone right away. But just making sure that you go through that process, you also run the background checks so that you’re doing as many things as possible to make sure that that is the right person for your practice.

Ana Suarez
And, you know, in the end, if that doesn’t end up being the case, at least you are at peace with yourself because you know you tried your best. You know, you ask very detailed questions during the interview process. You know, you followed up with the references. Maybe you did the interview where they come in and they do a little bit of, you know, the work interview, right?

Ana Suarez
So all of those are tools that you have at your disposal that you can do to help you with this process. And at the same time, you can always have someone to help you, either at a practice or consultants like us. We can help with the process as well, and we’ll be more than happy to assist. So with that said, we have done two episodes, this one today with what to do, what to look for when hiring, but then also the one, I think was episode 149, where we talked about what to do even before the hiring process starts, you know, like how to set up the expectations and make sure that you have

Ana Suarez
a well-defined job description. You get things ready in, for the new, new hires, right? So go and listen to that episode once you’re done with this one, and feel free to reach out to us and ask us any questions that you may have. We’re here to help you. And, you know, just make sure that the process is as smooth as possible.

Ana Suarez
And with that said, Nan, thank you so much for being here with me today and sharing all of this wisdom. It’s always a pleasure. Everyone. Have a wonderful, wonderful day and we’ll see you next time on the next episode of Shorr Solutions: The Podcast.

Voiceover
Before you go, new episodes are released every two weeks, offering perspective on the decisions, systems, and leadership behind well-run practices for continued insight between episodes. Follow us on social media @ShorrSolutions. This is Shorr Solutions: The Podcast.